AT&T Yellow Pages adds "Virtual Tours" Catagory
Its been reported in several newpapers around the USA that the At&T Yellow Pages is adding several new catagories to keep up with the times. "Virtual Tours" is one of the new catagories.
Here's a link to the Press Release
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/0...
I think this is great because I've had problems before getting me and my business listed in the right place in various directories. "Multimedia" seemed to cover a lot more than what I do, like Flash, website design & developement, TV Commercials, etc. "Photography" implied "flat" imaging
I think all the different terms we use to describe the product we produce confuses most of our potential customers. Many of these terms originated from the different companies whose products we use.
What does anybody think about adding a Glossary of Terms to the "Learn About VR" section in an attempt to standardize the terms?
The biggest "term" question is what do we call the images we produce; Panoramas, Interactive Images, Virtual Imaging or should we go along with AT&T and just call them Virtual Tours (meaning more than one image)?
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
Re: AT&T Yellow Pages adds "Virtual Tours" Catagory
Submitted by Michael Quan on Sat, 2007-01-06 13:20.Adding the VT category should help photographers. One point worth mentioning is that if you own a telelphone business line,
you can pay for listings in other Yellow Page categories. For example, commercial photography + VT + web design, this will
help cover more bases for prospective clients. What do you call them? Call them what the client calls them :-)
The customer is always right...
Re: AT&T Yellow Pages adds "Virtual Tours" Catagory
Submitted by Doug Aurand on Sat, 2007-01-06 21:40.Mike
That's my point exactly!
The customers have already decided what to call them.
That's why AT&T added the "Virtual Tours" category to the Yellow Pages. They didn't add iPIX, QuickTime VR or panoramas because they're not what our potential customers call the images we produce.
We're the ones who continue to use outdated (panoramas) or software specific (cubic & panoramic)) phrases.
A Virtual Photography Glossary could explain different image shapes (cubic, spherical, cylindrical, equirectangular), the differences in the images different fisheye lenses produce (Circular, Cropped & Full-Frame) and shoot techniques (2-fisheyes, Multi-Row or 6 around plus Zenith & Nadir) and what kind of lens is needed so much faster than going over and over it in each Forum posting by new members asking for information.
Membership in IVRPA could become an even more valuable with this kind of resource
Douglas Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
Re: AT&T Yellow Pages adds "Virtual Tours" Catagory
Submitted by cheathamlane on Sat, 2007-01-06 21:58.Well, for ease of communication we _should_ call them what the customers call them -- or at least be aware of what they call them (and what they really mean). But, we should also be educating the customers and potential customers as to what they should call them.
Huh? :-P
In my book, for stitched images we've got
That is, take multiple stills and stitch them together to make a single panoramic image. When you link multiple interactive panoramic images together, you have a virtual tour.
I'm finding of late that customers are willy-nilly calling any panoramic image that spins around a "virtual tour". Maddening! It doesn't help that there are (mostly from uninformed real estate folks, or informed but looking to cash in on the name value) sites out there calling any sort of multiple image gallery on a Web site a Virtual Tour.
Call to arms! Take back our lexicon!
:-P
--
In checking out the AT&T Yellow Pages site, I couldn't find any way to get listed with a Virtual Tour heading. It's either not live yet for the Web, or it's hidden very deep in the structure. It also didn't help that their site kept crashing any Mac browser.
Patrick Cheatham
--
CheathamLane | spinControl:VR
Berkeley, California
VR Photography
Web, Flash & QuickTime Development
Virtual Photography Glossary
Submitted by Doug Aurand on Sat, 2007-01-06 23:55.Patrick
I really like your idea of taking back our lexicon. That's the whole idea of a Virtual Photography Glossary for the IVRPA site.
But not all "Virtual Images" have to be "stitched", there are the "one-shot" systems. There's even links to one-shot vendors on the IVRPA Links page. I'm not a fan of the product, but they are a 360° FOV image like the old non-cubic QuickTime VR images.
The only problem I have with "panoramic images" is I think of a "panorama" as a wide photo. Isn't the use of "panorama" a carry over from QuickTime VR before Cubic or the old PhotoVista software? They produced panoramas or Cylindrical Images with no top or bottom.
To me a Virtual Image is an Interactive Image with a 360° horizontal field of view that imitates human vision. Cubic and Spherical Images with 360° vertical FOV just do a better job of imitating human vision than Cylindrical images. I guess a 180° view could qualify too.
And a Virtual Tour is a combination of Virtual Images.
And I agree 100% about educating the public.
Those real estate "virtual tours" that are just a bunch of still photos aren't "virtual tours." They're just Slide Shows. It really annoys me that they call them virtual tours.
I think IVRPA could go a long way to solve this problem, especially since no one else is trying too.
Its a vaccuum we could fill.
It would enhance the value of what we as Virtual Photographers do in general and the IVRPA in particular
Douglas Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
Re: Virtual Photography Glossary
Submitted by cheathamlane on Sun, 2007-01-07 00:28.Hi Douglas:
I'm very awary of the one-shot systems; this is why I prefaced my bulleted list with "for stitched images".
People who don't do what we do can find all of these terms conceptually misleading. I agree that it'd be nice to have a general lexicon from which all of us as professionals can draw -- to help ourselves as much as people we potentially talk to about what we do.
I think you should make a new forum post about the Panographers' lexicon -- If enough entries come in to then be juried, the IVRPA could certainly fit this list in to the site. This site is all about community building, and is itself built so that it can have its members help it grow. If you click the link in the menu bar at top of page for "learn about vr", you'll see a perfect spot for this list to grow into (and replace?). :-)
Personally, I take issue with the use of "Virtual" in any case. These are real images... but the vernacular has taken hold of "virtual", so I guess we have to run with it.
"Panorama" I'm comfortable with, especially with its tie-in to 'panning' etc., and inasmuch as it means in part "[a] complete view of an area in every direction". Look up also "Cyclorama". Besides, for wide photos, how much wider can one get than 360°? ...Not counting of course the nicely put together 720° and greater ones that I've seen. ;-)
Just playing Devil's Advocate here -- To me, and also from what I've learned and heard, a still image from a 50mm lens is supposed to best equate to what we see with the human eye... I think by "imitating human vision" you might instead mean "human experience"?
I'm on the fence about 360x360 unobstructed experiences. I enjoy framing things, and thus framing my viewer's experience. I'm not generally interested in showing them things they don't need to see, or which in my view (!) detract from the experience. If a limited cylinder provides the best view, then why not? I find it rare when I have a ceiling or floor that I really think should be included. :-)
Sorry so scattered -- I do think you should start another post directed at the PL. Maybe just provide a list of some of the terms you find lacking, and let's go from there!
Cheers,
Patrick Cheatham
--
CheathamLane | spinControl:VR
Berkeley, California
VR Photography
Web, Flash & QuickTime Development
Re: Virtual Photography Glossary
Submitted by Doug Aurand on Sun, 2007-01-07 01:13.Patrick
Like I said, I'm not a fan of the one-shot product. Its a little wierd to me to be able to tilt down, but not up past level. I prefer the stitched cylinders with both some tilt up and down if the image isn't Full 360x360.
The "Learn about VR" is exactly where I thought the Glossary should go. Maybe add "Learn about VR" to the bottom of the left menu below VR Community.
I don't know what the FOV of a 50mm is but I've always had really wide periferal vision. How about "imitating the human visual experience"?
For the broad term "Virtual Image" maybe an exact number of degrees shouldn't be used. Or a qualifier like "generally 360° around, but including panable images of a smaller field of view." I 've delivered 180° x 180° images like those of limited view you described. We even get into problems with "perspectively corrected" like QuickTime and iPIX are, because there is a Flash viewer for Cylindrical images that doesn't take out the "warp" in the image.
The site being about "community" is where I think the value of a Virtual Photography Glossary would come from. With all the different points of view, varied experiences, software, cameras and lenses used by members we should be able to get it right.
I'll start a new post in a couple days with some suggestions. Hope you'll jump in and play constructive devil's advocate.
Should the Forum post be Public or Members Only?
Douglas Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
Re: Virtual Photography Glossary
Submitted by cheathamlane on Sun, 2007-01-07 01:45.Hi Douglas:
I think let's go Members Only for now -- then we can widen it out to the public if little response. You can bet I'll play Devil's Advocate (constructively :P)!
I think we can even do Polls, which might be useful when needing to decide between terms...
Cheers,
Patrick Cheatham
--
CheathamLane | spinControl:VR
Berkeley, California
VR Photography
Web, Flash & QuickTime Development