New member

There are no US sales outlets for Agnos.

If you contact them thru their website, they are very responsive. I haven't bought anything from them, but they got back to me quickly with answers to my questions.

Regarding the rotator you're interested in, I'm not sure all the stitching software can stitch the angled fisheyes. You may want to confirm that or maybe somebody here knows. The PTGui template is included with the rotator from Agnos, so PTGui for sure can.

Douglas Aurand
Albuquerque, NM

Leo
The only reason you might lean to the Canon, is its CMOS sensor.

I'm planning to move up from my Nikon Coolpixes to a DSLR and have been doing some research on what to buy. Right now I'm planning on a Canon 350D or 400D with a Sigma 8mm f3.5

A problem photographers using fisheye lenses have is the super-wide field of view. Finding an exposure setting that shows the interior or a room in the right light without "blowing out" the bright windows is difficult. They usually "burn to white". And they often "bloom" at the edges. The light overcharges the pixels and the charge spills over to neighboring pixels.

CMOS sensors are supposed inherently produce less or no blooming compared to CCD sensors. I think all the Canon DSLRS use CMOS sensor, but your 20D definitely does.

The practical side of less blooming is sharper edges to work with if you "cut in" the windows (take two exposures, one set for the room, one for the window, then copy & paste the window into the room exposure) or composite multiple exposures using a High Dynamic Range imaging product like Photomatix Pro.

PCPhoto Magazine has a good article about CMOS & CCD sensors at

http://www.pcphotomag.com/learning-center/digital-photography-basics/und...

I haven't had any actual practical experience with this but the camera shop I use here in Albuquerque is going to let me set up a couple of their demo cameras and take some test photos. One test I want to take is shooting out their bright front windows and see if the reduced "blooming" theory works and if its really enough to make a practical difference.

I'll post the results on IVRPA and be happy to share the sample photos, but it may be a month or so before I get the time.

Also, Amazon.com has had the Sigma 8mm f4 and f3.5 in stock every time I've checked prices

Douglas Aurand
Albuquerque, NM

Hi Leo,

Yes, there are a couple of downsides to using a newer lens with a Nikon mount on a EOS Canon.

The biggest one is you lose the ability to change the F stop via the camera. You have to manually change it with the lens removed from the camera. There are many different ways to do this, do a google search on using a nikon 10.5 on a Canon EOS and you'll see what I'm talking about. Not sure if the Sigma Nikon mount could work the same way or not.

Also, you lose auto focus and focus confirmation. Not a big deal with fisheye lenses and in shooting VR's you want to use manual focus anyway.

And third, you need a quality adapter, there are some junk ones out there. If the adpater is not perfect in it's thickness, you may not be able to focus properly at infinity and/or might require an off setting.

If you have Nikon's and plan to buy the Sigma for it, an adapter would probably be a waste of time for you. Just use your Canon for other things.

Good Luck!

Robert

Leo
I was hesitant to say anything about the MrotatorCS, but using a more conventional one like the the affordable Nodal Ninja, Manfrotto (its been on the market foever) or a Kaiden would be a more conservative entry in to virtual image photography.

They do take more photos to get a full sphere or cube, but there are just a lot more of us who are or will be this type of rotator who can give advise and help if you have a problem.

Douglas Aurand
Albuquerque, NM

Ricardo
I didn't mean anything bad about the Agnos Mrotator CP.

Just that its the rotator that holds the camera & lens at an angle, so you can shoot just 3 photos to get a full sphere or cube.

Here's a link;
http://www.agnos.com/catalogo.htm?v_lingua=ENG&v_iss_web=000000000000000...

Some of the stitchers don't support these source photos.

And more of us are and will be (me) using a more conventional design like the A, B and TCPShort and would be able to offer advise and assistance while Leo learns panoramic photography.

Its like a kid buying a Maxda with a rotary engine as a first car. Most of his fiends will have Fords, Chevys and Dodges (in the USA) and won't know a thing about the Wankel engine when it needs work and repair. Nothing necessarily being wrong with the rotary engine, its just not like other engines so support is harder to find.

I've been considering the Mrotator B for the FC-E9 lens to see if I can use it to increase the resolution I'm capuring with my Coolpix cameras and have heard good things about Agnos

Douglas Aurand
Albuquerque, NM

Hi Doug,

I think I made a mistake. I wasn’t replying to your comment. I was just giving my testimonial about Agnos products.

Sure it’s very important see the compatibility matrix (camera, lens and sometimes stitching software too) before buying any panohead.

Ricardo - USVP

BTW

With this configuration (Coolpix 8800 + FC-E9 and MrotatorB) you will need 3 shots. With 8700 + FC-E8 + MrotatorA 2 shots are enough.
I use these cameras to make real state panoramas with a very reasonable result.

Ricardo

Ricardo
Did you mean 8700 + FC-E9?

I didn't hink there was an adapter to fit the E8 on an 8700.
My 8700 uses the E9

I want to push my Coolpixes, a 5400 and a 8700, to the max they can do before moving up to a DSLR and a Sigma 8mm

What I want to do try with the MrotatorB for the FC-E9 is turning the cameras to a "portrait" position and use the zoom to almost fill the frame with a hockey rink shaped fisheye (round on the top & bottom and flat on the sides) like the Sigma 8mm produces on some DSLRs. I'm guessing it will take 6 shots around. But my Field of View should still be 190° or 183°, respectively, from top to bottom, so I hope I won't need a Zenith shot.

I was going to try it with a the Nodal Ninja I'm planning to buy for the DSLR/Sigma setup, but it doesn't have the clearance for the big fisheye where it extends below the bottom of the camera.

Have you ever tried turning the 8800/E9 to a portrait position and zooming?

Douglas Aurand
Albuquerque, NM

Hi Doug,

In fact, both Mrotators are B and Fisheye are FC-E(, The diference is UR-18 (8800) and UR-12 (8700) adapters and the brackets of Mrotators B (8700 uses the same as 5400).

No, I never tried to shot in portrait + zoom (coolpix). When I chose "fisheye lens" on 8800, the zoom is automatically set to infinite.

Ricardo - USVP

Ricardo
That's what my 5400 and 8700 do when I set them to "fisheye" in the Lens selection. But the "circle" was a lot smaller than the height of the the frame on both cameras

What I did was just shoot the scene the way I normally do, then I tried leaving the lens setting in "normal", letting the autofocus handle focusing and zooming until the circle was as tall as the frame. The resulting virtual images have a lot more detail because the source images have a lot more detail. I remembered my high school geometry and calculated I'm getting 100% more pixels in the resulting circle than the default setting on the 5400.

Zooming the fisheye is now my standard method for shooting virtual tours.

The only problem I've had is if I'm shooting in a house (I mostly do real estate tours) that has low light in one of the rooms, the autofocus, very rarely, struggles to focus. I try one of the focus options on the camera, fall back to the "fisheye" setting or get more lite by opening more windows or getting one of the flood lites out of my car.

One of the advantages of doing real estate tours is having lots of real world opportunities to try new ideas, methods & techniques out. I've averaged around 100 real estate tours a year for the last 5 years so I've experimented a lot.

Douglas Aurand
Albuquerque, NM

Hi Doug,
I just tried this tip now and yes! It's far better than using fisheye camera setup.
Thank you.
Ricardo - USVP

Ricardo
I'm glad it helped you get more resolution.

Take care

Douglas Aurand
Albuquerque, NM

I didn’t try it before because I was 100% committed in tourism related jobs (www.tourvirtualbrasil.com.br).
Now I’m opening a new company only for Real Sate and I was testing the Coolpixes (8700 and 8800) to check if it can do the job… I realized that it can and your tip helped us to avoid buying new cameras,
Thank you again,
Ricardo

Ricardo - USVP

Ricardo
Even after I get the Sigma 8mm for my Canon XTi, I'm planning to keep using the Coolpix 5400 and 8700 I have for real estate work, charging less for it than the work I'll do for hotels & resorts with the Canon/Sigma setup

Douglas Aurand
Albuquerque, NM

Sure! I hired 2 guys to do that job.
We are charging U$ 649.80 ( 12 x U$ 54.15) per tour with 4 panoramas plus U$ 10.00 (12 x U$ 0.84) per additional panorama in the same location.
The tour is hosted at our web server for 1 year, after that the client is charge (U$ 20.00/month) to continue or he can request one CD version for free, or both.
Ricardo – USVP

Hi Leo,

Good luck with the rotator, it will work, just requires a bit more precision and care when shooting.

For pricing, it's all over the map, like all forms of photography, the rates people charge are based on many fators. Competition, image use, value to client, abilitly of client to pay, photographer skill/branding/marketing, expenses to shoot, image quality, local market rates and much more.

In the VR market real estate is the bottom end for pricing. Ranges anywhere from $69.95 or even lower in the US to $300-500 or more for some number of VRs and stills.

Pricing for longer term use for hotels, tourist locations, restruants, etc. usually starts around $250 per VR and can go up to thousands of dollars per VR.

At the top of most photography fees is the advertising world. They also pay a wide range of fees, but usually pay day rates plus expenses. Anywhere from $1,500 to $5,000 or more per day and may also include usage fees. Wedding Photographer's range from $2,000 to $10,000 or more for a package. You can also get your portrait done at Walmart for $9.95 or so or go to Irving Penn and pay $50,000.

So, there realy is no typical fee, just some ranges. Without knowing what market your going after it's impossible to say what rates might apply. But I seriously doubt if you've found a market that has not used VRs already, just may not be common.

Regards,

Robert

So, it really depends a lot on who your buyer is, and the value they may get from your work.

Thanks Robert, that was very helpful!

leonardo