Ipix license up-VT Photographer seeks counsel

Hi maskdlane

If you're looking to keep shooting with just 2 fisheye shots, you should probably forget using PTgui if you want to stay legal in the US, at least. While Ford Oxaal has not shown any propensity to go after individual users at this time, at one time his web site stated that they might unless you licensed his program, http://www.pictosphere.com/pictoStitchProductOverview.html

It seems Stitcher DS, Ford's program or iPIX may be the only real legal alternatives in the US for stitching two fish eye images into a VT. There are other vendors/solutions, but you'll need to check with them if they are compliant with US patents.

Personally, I would suggest moving away from iPIX as fast as possible. No sense spending more money on whats become a dead end. Try the demo's of Stitcher DS, and Ford's Pictoshpere Pro. And if you want to try a completely new and a higher quality approach to VT's try shooting 3 or more images to make a VT. From my understanding this removes the iPIX/Oxaal patent issues. And it gives you the benefit of a higher quality product; although not one without quite a bit more work to do in processing. There are no free lunches :)

If you decide to go beyond the iPIX approach, then PTGui is so under priced it's the deal of the industry. Takes a bit of time to learn, but it's fundamentally better than the much higher priced tools in it's core stitching capability. The other tools have added value too however. Stitcher has a lot of added value in formats, creating movies,and finished VT (PTGui does not create VT's by itself, just the image file.) I'm not sure about Fords product as the last time I looked at it was a beta version about 3-4 years ago but it showed a lot of promise.

And, note, the support of PTGui by it's team is first rate, as good or better than any other program I've even used, and I've used hundreds of software products over the years. It is also widely supported on many forums, etc. as it's probably the most used stitcher by advanced amateurs and professional VR creators today. Combined with Pano2QTVR it's the best deal out there.

Good Luck

Robert

maskdlane
Is unlikely Ford Oxaal will "go after individual users" since he doesn't own the infamous US Patent 5185667. The US Patent office lists it as belonging to Omniview, a predecessor to iPIX Corp. He acknowledges that he and Minds Eye View are "licensed under Ipix's" "patents" in the recent news story in the Knoxville News Sentinal about he and his company buying the remaining, non-patent iPIX assets.

I'm assuming you only have the 2-stop rotator from iPIX and that's the problem Robert, who I suspect had never used any products from iPIX and I doubt knows anything first hand about their products, is not aware of. For you to switch to a 3 fisheye capture method will require new equipment, a new rotator, on top of the new software or license renewal expense.

Some of the rotators out there aren't compatable with the FC-E8 and FC-E9 lenses. The afforadble Nodal Ninja 3 (US$216) specifically lists those lenses as not working with their rotator.

You can add 3 stops to your existing setup like I did by adding a Manfrotto 300N Panoramic Head (US$171 on Amazon.com) under the iPIX Rotator which you'll need to lock up so the 300N does the rotating.

But to be honest, you and your customers will see little or no difference in using 2 or 3 fisheyes with most iPIX camera setups. Robert even admitted in another thread that he couldn't tell which iPIX images I used 2 or 3 fisheyes as the souces in a tour.

Because you've waited until you license is almost expired you have to make a decision quickly and are probably looking to spend as little as possble. Doing Real Estate Tours is not the most profiable segment of the virtual imaging market.

The least expensive approach is staying with the camera, lens and rotator you probably bought through iPIX and deciding between 3 software choices, renew your IIS license (US$699), buy RealViz Stitcher DS (US$679) or buy Pictosphere Pro (US$499).

I've traded e-mails with RealViz. They are is specifically looking for iPIX users to convert, providing support for the transition. They've even hired some of the former iPIX sales people.

Robert may be premature in assuming the iPIX software and technology is a "dead end". In the Knoxville News Story I mentioned before, there is a suggestion in Ford Oxaal's comments that there will be an "iPIX" product in the future. After all, he and his company wouldn't spend $450,000 to buy the name and software to do nothing with it. The iPIX Interactive Studio is a much more robust, full featured product than his Pictosphere software.

http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/business/article/0,1406,KNS_376_5449128,00.h...

So if you like using the iPIX Interactive Studio like I do, renewing your IIS license now may carry you until Minds Eye View does something with the iPIX assets.

Douglas Aurand
Albuquerque, NM

Kristn
The RealViz Stitcher willcreate Equirectangular Projections saving them as JPGs (or TIFFs). These can be viewed with the PTViewer.

Next time you upload a tour in PicturePath, click the "Technology" drop down menu and you'll see "PTViewer" listed

The PTViewer us most often used to view Equirectangular Projections or "Equirectangular" in the rendering choices in RealViz Stitcher.

Just use an image size the same as you use in IIS (2148x1024 is what I use) and keep the resulting JPG about the same size as the .ipx file (+/-300kb) and you'll be fine.

If you have the IIS Format Pack or Enhancer Pack add-ons, you can practice by outputing Equirectangular Projections and up-loading them as a test, like I did.

You can check the "expiration" of your IIS by clicking Help, then About Plug-Ins and each Plug-In will have an expiration date.

Douglas Aurand
Albuquerque, NM

I spoke with Ford Oxaal briefly on the phone a couple of weeks ago, after the sale of the IPIX assets had been approved by the bankruptcy court. While we didn't specifically talk about the IPIX software licenses, Ford did indicate that he was intending to keep the IPIX web site open and to try to utilize the public familiarity and recognition of the IPIX brand. That would imply to me that you can probably continue to get updates and renewals for your IPIX software licenses for a fairly long time.

It is my guess that Minds Eye View is willing to continue earning licensing fees on the IPIX software applications, as all it really requires is keeping the IPIX web site live with its automated systems in place. The IPIX web site, all of IPIX's other domains, the IPIX name and logos, and many other physical and IP assets were purchased by Ford Oxaal's Minds Eye View at the bankruptcy auction, separate from Sony's purchase of the IPIX patent portfolio. I understand that as a part of the various legal settlements and bankruptcy sales, Minds Eye View and Sony Corp. both have cross licenses to utilize one another's related patents as secured in the IPIX dissolution. Thus, it would seem that both Minds Eye View and Sony can pretty much offer whatever IPIX technology they want in their respective products.

Scott Highton
Author, Virtual Reality Photography
Web: http://www.vrphotography.com

Scott
I don't think Sony would be able to offer licensing and renewal of the software since they didn't buy it.

The copyright on the software and the patents the software owner is licensed to use are two entirely different pieces of intellectual property.

The patents are the "concept," the sotware is the "execution."

I think MEV is more than "willing" to continue selling the iPIX software. The iPIX Interactive Studio is a much more robust product than the Pictosphere stitcher, that just never caught on.

PTGui with the pano12.dll file from PanoTools could do pretty much do what Pictosphere for less than one fifth the cost. Anybody in the IVRPA using PTGui with the pano12.dll file??? ;)

Douglas Aurand
Albuquerque, NM

Doug,

I think you misunderstood my post. I never indicated that Sony would be selling or servicing IPIX's software. Rather, Sony now owns the IPIX patents. However, Ford Oxaal and Minds Eye View own very similar (and previously conflicting/overlapping) patents. Since Ford owns the IPIX name, web site, software, etc., and apparently there are cross licenses for both Sony and Minds Eye View to utilize the patented technologies that both have claims to, there is no reason to believe that Ford wouldn't continue to sell and service the existing IPIX software applications to end users, since this represents an ongoing revenue stream.

Scott Highton
Author, Virtual Reality Photography
Web: http://www.vrphotography.com

Scott
I think you misunderstood me.

Your comment is worded like MEV will have licensing or use of all of the patents Sony bought. While there are some patents MEV and iPIX did "share" I doubt they involved all of iPIX's later 360° Video patents or the Gigapixel Video Camera patents that all came a few years after MEV and iPIX ended their law suit.

MEV really needs the boost in the arm selling the iPIX software could give them. The Pictosphere software just never caught on being a bit pricey at US$499 and pretty much limited to stitching circular fisheyes into Equirectangular Projections to be viewed with the PTViewer.

Their website says it can stitch "full frame" fisheyes but their are no examples and the limit of just 2, 3 or 4 images pretty much rules out full-frame fisheye images from the Nikkor 10.5mm. I think they're using "full frame" in a different sense.

MEV is facing the same problem iPIX Corp was anticipating; no affordable lens or lens converter that can produce a fully circular fisheye image with greater than 180° FOV once Nikon discontinued the the FC-E8 and E9 lenses. I talked to the former Sales Manager of iPIX still imaging and he said they were planning on building their next major update of the software around the RealViz Plug-In and the Sigma 8mm.

MEV is going to have to very quickly add the ability to stitch images from the Sigma 8mm and Nikkor 10.5mm or neither the iPIX Interactive Studio or PictoStitch Pro will be a product any new virtual tour photographers are going to seriously look at. And the $4,500 Coastal Optics 4.88mm fisheye is just too expensive a lens to build a stitching software business around.

There is a "RealViz Stitching Extension" add-on for IIS, but in the examples still on iPIX.com it doesn't show a set of Sigma 8mm or Nikkor 10.5mm source pics with a Zenith or Nadir shot being used. All the resulting images have a "hole" in the top and bottom of the virtual image. Its not apparent if this was just an oversight or a limitation of the "plug-in". The stitched samples and source images are still on
http://www.ipix.com/products_iis_samples.html

My IIS has "6 cubic faces" as source choice (I think its part of the Format Pack) that will stitch the 6 faces from a QuickTime type cube, but I don't think it will work with the typical 6 source photos from a Sigma 8mm. I don't have a full set of 6 images from a Sigma 8mm to test, any one want to donate some?

I just hope MEV can hire one of the software writers from iPIX that can add the capacity to stitch images from a Sigma 8mm or Nikkor 10.5mm into a full cube or sphere. Otherwise the value of their near half a million dollar investment will erode quickly.

Maybe they can figure out a PTStitcher Plug-In? After all the PTStitcher was never patented.

That would be devilishly ironic...a PTStitcher plug-in for iPIX software ;)

Douglas Aurand
Albuquerque, NM

Scott,

Any word on whether Ford plans on attending the IVRPA conference? It would be nice to have him there to discuss his plans and/or vision.

Hoyle

Or he could post something to the Public Forums on IVRPA.org for iPIX users, looking for guidance about what to do about their stitching software, to find.

Like the one who started this thread

Douglas Aurand
Albuquerque, NM

Hi Kristin,

We found ourselves in your same situation this time last year.

We too shoot real estate tours. Also was a Hometour360 provider with Realtor.com and posted our tours via picture path.

RealViz Unlimited Stitcher "DS" Version for stitching 2 shot fisheye images is the best - we tried them all.

We also created our own hosting system because Homestore's virtual tour templates were not competitive enough.

We are building a network of Hometour360 virtual tour providers and hosting tours, publishing to realtor.com etc...

Give me a call or send email; would be happy to provide advice, swap stories.. or show you our hosting system. We've been in the business for 6 years.

Michelle
(888) 472-2834
michelle@centralimagehost.com

With the purchase of iPIX's reamining non-patent assets by Minds Eye View, renewing an iPIX Interactive Studio license is a serious consideration again.

Douglas Aurand
Albuquerque, NM