Updating the links list

Aldo
Do you have page counts for the Tools & Links page?

I'd like to let the vendors know how much exposure they're getting FREE to encourage them to provide continually updated info for the page.

Douglas Aurand
Albuquerque, NM

They're not stellar... 15k since the beginning of time (er... the website).

Okay, so we may not want to boast about the number of times the the Links page gets viewed

Maybe the approach should be the opportunity to get their product in front of a bunch of virtual image photographers

How many Members and how many participants are there in the IVRPA.org?

Douglas Aurand
Albuquerque, NM

Not all of the tools on that list are commercial in nature and lend themselves to that sort of method. Hugin, PanoTools, PTViewer, etc are extremely useful but the developers may not respond to such a request. This list isn't just for commercial products but for anything that might be of use to the VR Photographer.

I'm just thinking if we give them a paragraph of 50 words or so to describe their product, commercial or not, they can do a better job than we can because we can't be experts on all of those products.

If the developers don't want to invest a few minutes to provide a brief discription of their product on our site, why would we want to list them?

I'd think the non-commerical tools would be the most interested in having the opportunity to use their own words to tell about their product.

And if the list page has only gotten 15k views since the site went online, a different approach can't really do any worse can it?

Douglas Aurand
Albuquerque, NM

Hey Doug:

I say have at it with whatever approach you find best... I do think, though, that we should list as many resources as we are aware of (that is, don't leave any out). Those that get back to you with more info will have a better display in the list than those with just a link.

Patrick Cheatham
--
CheathamLane | spinControl:VR
Berkeley, California
VR Photography
Web, Flash & QuickTime Development

Patrick
I was thinking of the same idea to list those products that update their info and add content, in the upper half of the list and the non-respondants in the lower half.

And if I ever think some entries should be removed, I'll post a list in the Members Forum explaining why I think they should go, and any listings a paying member thinks should be kept, will be kept. Although we might ask that Member to write the 50 word description to keep the entry.

How does that sound, Landis?

Douglas Aurand
Albuquerque, NM

Patrick & Landis
The more I've thought about it I'm puzzled why you think a longer list with little content is better than a shorter one with more content like longer descriptions of the products & tools. You know descriptions that would help potential users understand what the product is.

Do we really need to list every Graphic User Interface for Pano Tools, other than PTGui, that none of the IVRPA members and participants use.

Especially if they decline to respond to the offer to provide more and updated information. And they don't participate in the Public Forums let alone become a member for a whopping $50

Think about it for a minute, if some one doesn't want to talk to you and won't return your phone calls, why do you want to put them in your address book?

And the approach of including every obscure piece of software and virtual imaging tool has really worked well so far? 15,000 page views since the sight went online...that was sarcasm. I get almost 50,000 page views every month on a little website about an out of the way place called Albuquerque. NM

Landis, thanks for thinking I'm stupid enough to suggest PTViewer should get removed if Helmut Dersch didn't respond to my e-mails. That would like me suggesting that the QuickTime Player be removed because Apple didn't respond. I doubt I'd try to contact either. I'd probably ask Robert Bilsland who was really helpful in helping me understand how PTViewer in a Forum thread write the 50 word description.

I'd appreciate it if you'd give a little credit for some common sense.

You know, maybe I'm not the right guy for this. I'm not big on following failed approaches and really don't need Landis second guessing me anytime I do something with his old Turf.

Find somebody else

Douglas Aurand
Albuquerque, NM

Doug:

I'm sorry you feel Landis is second-guessing you. All Landis mentioned in this forum thread was:

This list isn't just for commercial products but for anything that might be of use to the VR Photographer

...Which I also think is true. We offer more prominent space to paid sponsors via the "sponsors" page (which also need updating!).

If you're too busy, otherwise preoccupied, or have sudden reservations... then, no worries -- we'll continue as we are. I do appreciate you at least offering to do the updating though.

Patrick Cheatham
--
CheathamLane | spinControl:VR
Berkeley, California
VR Photography
Web, Flash & QuickTime Development

I agree with Landis and Patrick, every bit of panoramic software should be listed, or as much as possible. The tools I use aren't the same tools you might prefer to use.

A am also sad to see you bail out of this Doug. Reconsider and do a bang up job with it. Just remember this is a resource for everyone, from newby to guru.

Cheers
Robert C. Fisher
VR Photography/Cinematography
cfish-Media

Guys its finally becoming obvious to me that this organization has no interest in trying anything new, anything different than what was done before.

Let see, a different approach to an exsisting Links page where the info is omitted, out of date and inaccurate that would expand the content and make the underviewed page more interesting. Response: No we don't want to do that

Suggestion of a Virtual Photography Glossary to define the terms we use. Response: No we don't want to do that

Suggestion of a Library of Source Photos from various Cameras & Lenes so newbies and experiensed Virtual Photographers could try them out without spending hundred or thousands of dollars. Response: No we don't want to do that

Even though there have been numerous discussions about the various methods & technologies of playing virtual photos, I didn't even bother suggesting the idea of setting a demo section up where the same scene could be viewed in PTViewer, QuickTime, PURE Player, Shockwave Spi-V and maybe an iPIX Viewer (if the idea of having an actual .ipx file on the site doesn't make the QuickTime/Mac guy's heads explode), so people could see the attributes and performance of them all seen in place.

You guys should just go back to being the IQTVRPA, 'cuz nothing's changed in the year I've been a memeber

Douglas Aurand
Albuquerque, NM

Hey Doug:

This is a group and group effort -- generally other opinions need to be taken into account. You offered to make changes, other folks offered their opinion and ideas on your approach. If you don't like the ideas or approach, then feel free to discuss that or constructively come to a consensus... For me, at least, your attitude is becoming tiresome.

Maybe a day or two off would be in order? Take a break from the IVRPA site, Doug, and cool your jets. I'm going to do the same.

Patrick Cheatham
--
CheathamLane | spinControl:VR
Berkeley, California
VR Photography
Web, Flash & QuickTime Development

You know reading through this I don't see anyone not wanting to take a different approach but just being fair about listing ALL the tools available. Maybe adding user reviews would help. There are a lot of tools I use that I have found over the years of trying out everything I can get my hands on, commercial or not. Some of the best software these days is open source or almost OS.

Who doesn't want to do a VR glossary? That sounds like a good idea.

I think the demo section is a great idea.

My personal gripe with iPix dates to the days when iPix sued anyone making panos with fisheye lenses. Using nothing but sheer force to push it's products using dubious claims and patents. This has nothing to do with either Macs or PCs just a bully corporation.

My own personal preference for computers is over 25 years of using both Macs and PCs and finding what works for me.

If this is what you want to bring to the table then get some people behind you and do something about it. Like Patrick said this is a group effort, you have to get along. Explain why you think something is a good idea and take suggestions from others to make it better. If you want change then make change don't talk about it.

Cheers
Robert C. Fisher
VR Photographer/Cinematographer
cfish-Media