IPIX is dead!

I might be completely wrong here, but i dont think Ipix own all the patents, they are only licenced to use them from a company called Minds Eye View Inc (MEV) http://www.pictosphere.com/.

I found by accident, that a company called www.360dof.com aka www.vrstitcher.com are licenced to use the patent, and they say

"In addition to VRstitcher, in the area of spherical imaging and the creation of full-360 images from fisheye photographs, IPIX Corporation is the only other company with a license to the above spherical imaging patents provided by Minds-Eye-View, Inc."

found at
http://www.360dof.com/products/panorama-stitching-vr-equipment/vrstitche...

I also found that Ipix have been in court against Minds Eye View, as they have claimed
"Unfair competition and Patent violation"
http://www.pictosphere.com/kwx/news.html

Surely you dont bite the hand that feeds you?

I found on a cached version of the ipix site from a google search
http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:sSC4pW-yggcJ:www.ipix.com/faq_iis2.h...
section 2.14
That they even say about the Minds Eye View here, but then also say about their own patents, so i dont know if they have thier own patents on top of these MEV patents.

So in this sense, i dont think the loss of ipix will have any effect at all on the market, as it is not them that own the patent, they have just paid to use it for a period of time.

Lets hope that the next people that licence it arnt as aggressive as Ipix.

But for anybody with the equipment, looks like www.vrstitcher.com is your baby to invest in if you want something similar to Ipix. Theres a demo of thier software, but i havent tried it yet.

I also found on my little trip around google these other links

http://forum.autopano.net/t525-fisheye-support (similar discussion to this one)

http://sec.edgar-online.com/2001/05/15/0000950144-01-502328/Section8.asp
Ipix Winning a $1M law case against Infinite Pictures, Inc. (now iMove)

http://www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abn/y02/m08/i23/s01 same as above but when they won an appeal and got $1.4M ( i assume this is including interest

http://lists.apple.com/archives/QuickTime-VR/2003/Jun/msg00195.html
Talks about the patents

Sorry for being so anal, but it just interests me how one company can cause so many problems and so much disruption and how they keep winning court cases. I just got 3 speeding points on my licence, i wonder if their lawyer's can get them of for me?

Regards
Ian

www.QuickTimeVirtualReality.com

I feel for you. As a software developer myself, who often gets told my licensing scheme is comlicated, I made sure my licensing scheme works even when I go out of business... You might not be able to buy new licenses off me, but old licenses will always continue to work (unless the software itself stops working due to - for example - new OS software etc)

Other software to check out includes easypano (www.easypano.com), which will get you closest to the IPIX workflow and quality (or actually, the relative lack thereof; other equipment/software combinations will get you far better results, but at more effort).

Thanks very much for your comments. easypano looks good at first quick glance. I am not a techie, but not afraid to learn new software. I do my hosting and distribution through homestore and they advised they only work with iseemedia going the same route on picture path. I like some of the other templetes but would have to learn alot more....most energy now going into keeping my business afloat with all this new information and the possiblility of having to get different equipment.
Thanks again,
Susan

Susan Johnson
www.360photoviews.com
508.385.6062
360photoviews.com@comcast.net

I also transitioned thru many companies and threats to my little business territory of Southeastern Massachusetts and Cape Cod. This one has taken me by suprise, but I survived before because I stupidly give my agents always more for less. I always have been the only one here with the 360 technology which really has been my only edge. Thanks for the link "knowledge is power"
Susan

Susan Johnson
www.360photoviews.com
508.385.6062
360photoviews.com@comcast.net

Your right, i always tried to do the same, if they asked for 2 tours, i would usually give them 3 or 4 (as it was only an extra few Min's photography and stitching to me).

In the end, i just ended up doing a set cost per property, within reason of course.

Only problem i had, is that i never bought the equipment to take spheres or cubes. So i was only offering them cylinders. But of course i wasn't told about this sales rep going around, the first i knew was i'm sorry Ian, we have decided to use this other company as they provide the equipment and it does all the way up and down.

I offered to buy the spherical equipment, but they said its no use as they have already ordered and paid for their new equipment. I found they were almost giving the cameras and software away, they paid about £200 (about $360) for a Nikon 990, fish eye lens, tripod head and the software, i suppose Ipix hoped they would get it back with the price of keys.

So i lost a lot of work, as it happened though i was taking loads of Object VR stuff as well as lots of other work, so financially wasn't too bad for me and at least i wasn't driving for miles and waiting for estate agents to open the property every day. But you never want to loose work do you, especially to some underhand way.

I think the other major factor that hit Ipix is the one shot by Kaidan. I keep in touch with most of the estate agents i worked with doing other types of work for them, and most have the one shot lens now, which they love, and don't have to pay per key. Also it is fool proof to use, just not any good for anything but web use, which is all they need though isn't it.

Ipix "What goes around, comes around"

Ian
www.QuickTimeVirtualReality.com

A quick check on ebay reveals only a few iPix items...I guess no one really wants them.

I'd like to see some thoughtful discussion on business practices in Real Estate.
Is it still a race to the bottom? Can folks make real money? What's the preferred
gear, and posting mechanism? How are sites like Zillow impacting the business?
What about the slow down in RE sales in the USA? What does the death of IPIX
mean for RE virtual tours?

To be honest, i don't think its going to have a huge difference, as the patents are still live, and who ever buys them, will want to make as much financial income as possible to re-cover the costs of buying whats left of the company.

I have a personal feeling if its not already happened Realviz and VR Toolbox, and maybe even Kaidan will be having some serious meetings on Monday morning, trying to work out if they could buy the brand with the patents as an individual company or as any one independently and use the patents for them selves in v6 of Realviz or v3 or VR Worx. But suppose there are others out there, but i think these are the main guys with the financial power, and also market presence to be able to persuade venture capitalists into helping them out.

I think the idea of anybody buying it to make money per key is non starter, as other companies have too much of an edge on that now. But it would def be a great addition to an existing software, to be able to stitch with 2 fish eyes, not forgetting if I'm not wrong the new Realviz can stitch 3 together, which is a much better solution anyway to loose the stitch marks.

They could even release a new software Real-pix lol

But what ever happens, the patents are still going to be owned by somebody, which means they will still be valid and prevent people in the same way as before from stitching with 2 hemispheres.

We made the core system for www.rightmove.co.uk in 2001 (the Uk's largest property portal) and are in the process of building a huge new system that will hopefully be live before Xmas. And we have been asked by some of the 100 estate agents we use as Guinea pigs (testers) to build in a virtual reality system. Unfortunately they have all asked for a Java applet system, which allows them to take a panorama, upload it into the system and it is displayed automatically through the front of the site. Before you all start chucking rocks at me, I'm sorry, but the client is always right what ever my personal opinions are.

There reasons were that the Quick Time plugin is too big (at about 20-80mb) to download and some of there clients arnt interested in waiting, especially if on dial up. Problem is also, most of the public are too thick to realise that half the download is for Itunes which is an option, so they give up and then the VR tour is never seen. But Java takes seconds, flash is just as good, and we are looking into that as well at the moment.

So the actual display will probably be for the general realtor/estate agent the simplest and easiest method for them to get it done. Which is at the moment the one shot system from kaidan, that nearly all the agents i have worked with LOVE.

www.QuickTimeVirtualReality.com

I also do not believe the impact will be substantial in the real estate industry as most all of the agents in my neck of the world are always looking for the least expensive way to go. There are so many companies sending weekly emails to the agents they don't know who to pick. Fortunatly I have established a loyal cliental who like the true 360 degree image.

I am confused about the reference to "keys" It has been 1 1/2 years since keys were available to me. I was required to buy a licence each year which did allow unlimited posting. As long as I paid homestore for hosting and distribution. That seem to transition when ipix got the residental real estate rights back.

I am also hoping some one has a copy of the java applet for the ipix images. I started selling the ipix images to the commerical market here and would send the web masters to the ipix web site for the applet for their pages. It was very stupid I know, but I never saved a copy (not seeing this end coming)

It seems like I have a thousand questions but I am trying to read everything you all make reference to, and I am still working on my learning curve. I am hoping my 2nd licence will stay active until it is due to expire.

Susan Johnson
www.360photoviews.com
508.385.6062
360photoviews.com@comcast.net

Hi Susan
Last time i used Ipix was a while back and i know then he had to buy a "Key" from ipix each time he wanted to export Ipix movies.

Im sure it wasnt cheep either, about £14 each if im not mistaken.

But like i say that was a while back so they may have changed this. I know one of my clients had found some kind of hack or serial generator and hadnt paid for a long time for any of his "Keys". Im sure that kind of thing must of had an impact on ipix as well.

So could you pay for a one of licence that allowed you unlimited licences for a period of time?

www.QuickTimeVirtualReality.com

I paid for a licence that cost about $1,000/year for unlimited use (by a single photographer with a dongle) of the interactive studio. One licence expired on this past Aug. 3 (when they filed) and I have one that will expire in Feb. 2007. I imagine that will just become inactive then as there is no web site any more. I am very happy with the interactive studio, don't know if that's because I haven't used anything else (used the homestore wizzard before that). Can't seem to find anything else that is a 360 degree image. That has been the only thing that has set me apart (except for doing more for less) than the other companies. Do you have any suggestions?

Thanks, Susan

Susan Johnson
www.360photoviews.com
508.385.6062
360photoviews.com@comcast.net

Hi Susan, this will all have to be varified as i use VR Worx as only have the equipment now for cylinders not spheres. But i used to have the Nikon 990 and the 8mm lens to make the spheres.

There is definetly 2 types i know know of to make a similar effect as Ipix, only think is they need 3 images rather than the 2. Which is actually a a much better solution, as they have a good over lap and stitch almost perfectly as long as they were taken correctly.

Realviz 5.5 (www.realviz.com)
(http://www.red-door.co.uk/pages/productpages/rvs-express-redshop.html)
This allows you to add the 3 fish eyes and it will auto stitch it together. There is a fully working demo that you can download and have play with. The cheeper one has a few restrictions, but if you just want to make simple movies, it will prob do you fine. But realviz does huge amounts more, visit their sites and have a read and play with the demo to see what i mean.

EasyPano Panoweaver (www.easypano.com)
(http://www.red-door.co.uk/pages/productpages/panow.html)
This does the same job as the realviz up there, but it is more like the ipix, where it is limited to what it can do, and has no where near the functionality of Realviz. This also has a fully working dmeo with demo files with a tutorial to help you learn the product.

Once you have used either of these, you will see they are not dificult to use, and you can continue your work, but this time, without the licence fee per year.

Hope this helps
Ian

www.QuickTimeVirtualReality.com

Hi Susan
Any news on the new software, did you have a play with the demos, and choose one? Or are you going to wait until your licence expires.
Ian

www.QuickTimeVirtualReality.com

Thanks for the follow up Ian,

I am still gathering information. You have all given me great leads, I am now studing....being a manual person and not a techie this will take awhile. I know I won't loose my business as nothing is irreplace-able. I am thankful I have time and that I have an opportunity to listen and communicate with you all.
Susan

Susan Johnson
www.360photoviews.com
508.385.6062
360photoviews.com@comcast.net

Susan,

I have copies of the IPIX Java Applet in multiple versions that I'm happy to send to you. Contact me off list. Version 4 was the best version, but version 5 allowed for hotspot integration if you used TV Studio. See http://www.technipix.com/dnp_eagle.html for an example of this (you must have a fairly recent version of Java to see Version 5 applet).

Best,

Hoyle Koontz

The new doors are starting to open, I am truly grateful...Susan

Susan Johnson
www.360photoviews.com
508.385.6062
360photoviews.com@comcast.net

Hi sven
I have been talking with a few other friends about this Ipix closure, and to be honest im not sure if it would be possible to get it going again. Apart from what it does, which is make 2 fisheyes together, it doesnt really do much else. And the only advantage it had, was that it was easy and quick. But there are a few products on the market that do exactly the same job now, which dont require a licence per movie.

I think the industry has moved on, and lets say we did buy it and released it to the public under the open source rules, which in a way i am all for, but ina another way, we have to be realistic, and accept that a lot of the amazing imagery is only possible because of commerical aps like realviz, vrtoolbox, photovista, easy pano and many others. Yes there are other open source products like the pano tools, but as it is quite complex to use, the general public cant use it, which illiminates estate agents and other commercial uses.

I think some thing like this would be much more suited at the commercial market, allowing them to add it into one of their products like realviz or vr worx. or even licence it to a few of them to make it more fair.

I personally wouldnt mind paying a small amount extra on top of the HUGE amount that this Hobby/Business costs me anyway. I mean, lets say we say a good set up

canon 5D (full frame) £1800
Sigma 8MM lens £500
Manfrotto 303sph £350
Reaqlviz 5.5 £320
= £2970 ($5,346)

I dont think i would mind an extra £100 and at least we know it will be looked after and developed further as it will be in a commercial interest.

www.QuickTimeVirtualReality.com